PAP: You have been occupying the office of the head of the Chancellery of the Prime Minister for almost two months now. Have you acclimated already?
Marek Kuchciński: I'm acclimating, but it's still going on.
PAP: And what is wrong with this office?
MK: It's not even about the office itself, although I prefer more casual interior design.
PAP: How about cooperation with Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki, how is it going?
MK: Very well, the Prime Minister is indeed an element in politics, so all-encompassing.
PAP: Shortly after your nomination, it was said that you were to be the president's eye and ear in the Chancellery of the Prime Minister.
MK: These are rumors.
PAP: Am I to understand that when you came here, you stopped talking to Mr. Jarosław Kaczyński?
MK: We talk very often, all politicians who are in the leadership of Law and Justice and in the leadership of the government have very frequent contact with each other, even several times a week. Working here actually requires a lot of commitment and support for all activities aimed at coordinating cooperation between the prime minister and individual ministries, precisely within the prime minister's office. This is the main task of the Chancellery of the Prime Minister - to help the prime minister in serving and managing the government.
PAP: Do you use any ideas or advice from your predecessor, Mr. Michał Dworczyk?
MK: Absolutely. Minister Dworczyk was also the element that led to the functioning of this office as such an all-encompassing one - he was forced to do so by the situation that has occurred in recent years, both in Poland and in the world, mainly in Europe. I mean the pandemic and the multiple crises associated with it, and, of course, the intensification of the war in Ukraine, which brought subsequent overlapping crises: inflation, economic, etc. It seems to me that in the modern history of Poland we have not had an equally serious situation - neither in 2008 nor earlier, during those great reforms introduced in the 1990s. Therefore, the Chancellery of the Prime Minister had to anticipate events, to act sometimes on an hourly basis.
PAP: Can you risk saying that it has become such a super government within the government?
MK: I would call it differently - a supplementary body, supporting "hot", from moment to moment, the activities of various ministries - as in the case of health crises or activities related to the war in Ukraine. Minister Dworczyk was able to do it.
PAP: Well, what's up with him, what is he doing? There were rumors that he was leaving the government.
MK: No, he still works in the Prime Minister's Office, dealing with matters related to supporting humanitarian activities abroad.
PAP: Do you enjoy working with Minister Dworczyk? Do you regret taking his place?
MK: Very good. And there are no foxes. You can see that this politician went through a hard school of scouting and the army in his youth - it teaches perseverance and resilience in difficult times.
PAP: Please tell me - will there be any personnel changes in the government in the coming weeks?
MK: This is basically a question for the Prime Minister, but I don't think there are any plans for that at the moment. The pre-election period - because we have less than a year to go before the elections - is not a good time for this and every government avoids any serious personnel changes then.
PAP: Well, unless you take away the powers of some important politician, as happened with Mr. Jacek Dekora, Deputy Minister of Climate and Environment.
MK: These are technical activities that are usually supposed to improve – I am speaking generally, not referring to Mr. Dekora – the functioning of the ministry.
PAP: It's a very interesting concept: we won't let anyone do anything, so we'll automatically improve the functioning of the ministry.
MK: In many governments there are ministers without portfolio, they have other tasks.
PAP: Represent?
MK: Not only, but also perform tasks assigned by the prime minister or the minister of climate and environment.
PAP: On Tuesday, Minister Mariusz Błaszczak announced that we are starting talks with Germany about the deployment of their Patriots in Poland, which - unfortunately - will not be handed over to Ukraine. How do you anticipate: when this equipment could reach us?
MK: You have to ask the Minister of Defense for specifics, because talks with the German side are conducted by him, without the participation of the audience. However, in my opinion, it is a matter of quite a short time. The Minister of Defense proposed to protect the border on the Ukrainian side, i.e. both Ukraine and Poland, and it was a good proposal. Assuming, of course, that the case of the Patriots was not only a PR game on the part of Germany. Our western neighbors have not decided to hand over the Patriots to Ukraine, so talks are being finalized so that this missile system will be in Poland, and in addition led by Polish command and crews.
PAP: The initial proposal of the Germans that their army should operate this equipment would pose any threats to Poland?
MK: Many suspected that it was a joke on the part of the Germans. It is hard to imagine a country that, having experienced these twentieth-century dramas on the part of Germany, would uncritically and unconditionally agree to such a situation.
PAP: At the next session of the Sejm, a vote of no confidence in Zbigniew Ziobro will be voted. Will you protect him?
MK: We have to defend Minister Ziobro and I think we will succeed.
PAP: Despite the fact that the situation in the United Right is also turbulent and full of discharges.
MK: It happens, and in fact, since 1989, I do not remember any parliamentary term and government that did not go through difficult and turbulent situations. Including governments that had a huge advantage, such as the SLD-PSL government with President Aleksander Kwasniewski or the governments of AWS and Unia Wolności, also with President Kwasniewski. There are more such examples. That's why I don't see any particular dramas here. There's always the counting of the votes, the reference to the hard constitutional ground that you have to have more than 230 votes to have a majority. And in the case of more serious changes - even more. That is why we do not make changes if we are not sure that there will be a sufficient majority to pass them. And I repeat: I would not dramatize the situation in the United Right.
PAP: When I was a child, a person behaving aggressively towards a group was called "fika". Rib fic?
MK: When I listen to him, I get the impression that he speaks quite seriously and in many cases points out important matters. Warnings against certain actions in the European Union or a hard fight for independence and ordering the judiciary are important and serious things. Please note - only one environment, related to the judiciary, survived communism without the process of vetting and decommunization. And we have the results of this, so it is a difficult challenge for Minister Ziobro. Ideologically, he is right in many cases, but sometimes you have to keep your feet on the ground, because not all ideas can be implemented - here and now, especially in relations with the European Union.
PAP: Was what happened to Jacek Dekora showing a yellow card to a political partner to make him calm down a bit?
MK: It is a matter of cooperation of all ministers and deputy ministers in one government. We are a team, so there should be team play. Each of the ministers is constitutionally responsible for his ministry, but cooperation is obligatory – also in public statements.
PAP: One team, not players?
MK: Yes, because only teamwork gives results. Tasking and reporting is also needed for this. Therefore, if a program is implemented, then it is necessary to check with what effect. Environmental protection is a very important area, but also a difficult one. From waste management, to nature protection, water protection, and CO2 allowance trading. These are matters that require great commitment, but also cooperation and seeking agreements - also with the European Union.
PAP: Speaking of the European Union - when, please, can we expect our first KPO payment application?
MK: There is still some time ahead of us, among the 27 EU countries, not all of them have finalized the way to receive money from KPO, some are even further from it than Poland.
PAP: Prime Minister Morawiecki is going to the EU summit next week. Will he have any talks there about this money for Poland?
MK: As I know the prime minister, he always uses every conversation, even bilateral, to talk about cooperation with the EU when he travels abroad. When talks are held with the prime ministers of Lithuania or Italy, our relations with the European Union are always one of the topics. This EU perspective is very complicated, especially since we do not always rely on a common understanding of EU treaties and law. This law is often interpreted differently - very broadly - in the European Commission, which makes it difficult for us to act. So even more so, in such a large team you have to talk all the time - it's essential.
PAP: Maybe it would also be worth talking to the EU about money that would somehow compensate for Poland's help to Ukraine? Now there is talk of another winter wave of refugees from this country to Poland. Are we prepared for them?
MK: I believe so; based on past experience. In 2020, when the pandemic appeared and in February 2022, when Russia hit Ukraine on a full scale, Polish society passed the test. On the other hand, the issue of money and support for Poland's activities helping Ukraine is one of the fundamental issues, and I believe that it should also be linked to the National Reconstruction Plan and demand support from the European Union, which should transfer the money due to us as soon as possible under the KPO. Poland provides Ukraine and its citizens with great help. The disparity with most other EU countries is huge. Unfortunately, this EU refugee support is not forthcoming. At the same time, it is difficult for us to obtain funds from the KPO, often attacking our country through the mouth of EU officials. I suspect that the German, French or other societies are not aware of the injustice that affects us on the part of some of the EU official elites.
PAP: On December 11, the Law and Justice convention on agriculture is to take place. Do you have any suggestions for farmers that you will present now, in the pre-election period?
MK: Proposals will be, are being prepared, a number of different necessary offers that will meet the current needs in rural areas. This is not only a matter for farmers, i.e. agricultural producers, but also for entire rural communities. They will also concern prospective issues, i.e. the vision of the development of Polish agriculture and Polish countryside, while referring to the principle of the need to defend family farms, formulated several years ago by our government and implemented by Janusz Wojciechowski, the European Commissioner for Agriculture and Rural Development. . Not only Polish, but all over Europe, especially Central Europe, because we have the most of them here.
PAP: Let me ask in a different way: what do farmers and villages need to make it better?
They need legal and organizational support, strengthening their position on the market, e.g. towards intermediaries and contractors. We also strive to build understanding that agricultural policy in Poland should be regionalised. Please take a look: farms in south-eastern Poland have small acreages - a few or a dozen hectares, while in north-western Poland we have large farms, almost farmers; one has to approach them differently. The entire area related to the service of agriculture, i.e. processing plants, as well as agricultural product marketing processes, needs to be strengthened. Added to this is the defense of Polish farmers and subsidies - this will continue to be implemented. We have already managed to achieve subsidies above the EU average for 97% Polish farms. It is also important to provide Polish agriculture with export opportunities, especially since Polish goods - both agricultural products and processing - are very competitive on world markets. In addition, they are ecological by nature, they have at least three times less fungicides and pesticides than those produced in Western EU countries. These are the advantages that the state should and does support, this is a challenge for us and our actions will go in this direction.
PAP: Recently, President Jarosław Kaczyński stated that he would agree to a debate with Donald Tusk, if it was held on fair terms. It's a good idea? Do you think there will be such a debate?
MK: I don't know, I would advise President Kaczyński not to talk to a man who is unreliable and aggressive. This was visible from the very beginning, when the Platform was created. The first example: how did he treat the people with whom he founded this party? Maciej Plazynski? He was marginalized soon after the creation of PO. Zyta Gilowska has been removed. Jan Rokita - was also removed. You don't do that with co-workers. He is a ruthless, unscrupulous politician.
PAP: Donald Tusk promised that he would be "tender and delicate" during the debate.
MK: The devil has put on a chasuble and is ringing his tail at the mass.
